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"Impeach the Pope"... er... I mean "File A Lawsuit against the Vatican, GODDAMNIT!"

As I was reading through the German humanist press-service (hpd), I read how US courts have decided that the Vatican can be sued, but that the Vatican might refer to its state immunity, and this might make actual prosecution impossible.

Furthermore, I have read that a member of the Social-Democratic Party (the more reasonable one as opposed to the "Christian Democratic Union", the one that gets the most votes) is being supported by the International League of Non-Religious and Atheists - he filed a lawsuit at the European Court to determine the legal status of the demand of a fee of up to 35€ Euro to officially leave the church your parents had you baptized into when you couldn't have had a say in it. Yes, in 12 of our federal states, you have to pay a fee to leave a church.

The German "Bundesgerichtshof recently determined that while this practice does limit freedom of religion, it is legitimate because the state is entrusted with collecting money for the church from their members and manage these payments, so when a beaurocratic effort has to made, you have to pay for that...

I say: File Lawsuits against the Vatican everywhere. State immunity applies (or ought to apply) only in matters of official state affairs (ius imperii), not when acting as a (legal) person... (ius gestionis)

And I think it should be plainly obvious that when citizens of a country entrust their children to the care of the institution of the roman-catholic church, this is the church acting as a partner in a contract which has to satisfy law and the constitution - I would even go as far as to say: Hold Ratzinger and all those high up responsible, since they oversaw, knew of, and failed to intervent, report and deal adequately with the reports of child-molestation and abuse... to say the least. In fact, evidence has been brought up that from high places in the Vatican, priests who have been known (to the church) to be prone to child-molestation... sexual abuse - and only acted when something happened. And instead of preserving evidence and conferring the priests responsible directly to the next police for a complete investigation (a duty, as they should very well know), but simply relocated those priests to other congregations without telling those people, of whom some in turn entrusted their children to these people unknowingly.

This is not a matter of ius imperii for the Vatican - not even if the status of "theocracy" and the rights theocracies want to have were recognized by international law.

All nations on this earth should recognize that while priests may be citizens not of the vatican state but of another country, they have an ideological "office" conferred by the Vatican state that they act in capacity of as priests, the ius imperii does not extent to dealings with official citizens - especially where they are entrusted with the care of children (or adults), they are subject to ius gestionis, and the vatican qua institution of the roman-catholic church can and must be held responsible.

Churches as institutions cannot and must not be granted any rights or privileges in acting "towards" citizens our respective nations that other non-religious institutions (e.g. political) would not be granted. "What? Claim 'new members' by an official mysticistic ritual on people who cannot even consent, having them indoctrinated only to get their children for indoctrination later on and then boast with your high member-numbers to claim political influence? Whoa...hold your horses, buddy.

These are practices no other institutions would be allowed to get away with for good reason. Imagine what would have long since happened to, say, a political party that, nationawide, underheld kindergartens and private schools, with attendees they claim from birth for their political party because the parents wanted it that way, only to bring them up to send more children to these schools... anyway, what would have happened had it become known that there were tens of thousands of cases of child-molestation in these schools and kindergartens and that high-ranking officials did everything they could to hush it up and barely anything to protect the people?

Long since, the FBI, or your respective government agency would have had a huge simulataneous, nationwide raid of its premises, securing all documents and names - asking questions to former and present members of the congretation and bring everyone from high-ranking members to lowly clerks in front of a court!

And that's what should happen! There, rant over...


Good rant - I cannot believe you have to pay to leave a church your parents chose for you?

Let's sue the pope!



I was never baptised, but I agree with your sentiments. Just another one of the many little Schweinereien they get away with.
And then compare that to the sententious waffle the federally financed clergy employ to gloss over the fact that there is no truth or depth to their moral 'philosophy'. And hard-working scientists like Harald Lesch who put a huge (and hopefully well-paid) effort into popularizing cutting-edge science are then more or less forced to go on tv (on their Christian-oriented network) and have a nice friendly dialogue with theologians who have nothing to offer but poetically weak fairy-tales.
- black wolf

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things you should look at


not directly pertaining to that subject, but we are the the wrong universities....


Impeach the pope

When I took my first job out of school in Germany, many years ago, I was totally surprised I had to pay "Kirchensteuer", even though I had not been baptized in Germany, let alone been born there. It took considerable effort, but no DM at the time to get out. I was however continuously hounded by the local Gemeide to return to the fold and cough up. I never did..jcw (aka kaiserkriss)

PS I was pleasantly surprised that Angela M told Darth Ratzinger,( paraphrasing here) where to get off and that his whole handling of the holocaust deniers was unacceptable. On the other hand, may Ratzinger have a loooong life, he is just making life for non believers easier.


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